Home Grown Terrorism!!!
Before I write this post, I'd like to warn that this is a very controversial topic. But since this is what's going on in India, I'd like to share what it looks like to me.
The whole world hates ISIS today. Why? They are terrorists. They don't believe in democracy. If anyone dares to speak against them, they issue death threats and carries them out. They don't want to listen to any opinion other than what they think is right.
Now let's take a look at so-called Rajput Karni Sena who is issuing violent threats left, right and centre.
Do they believe in democracy? I don't think so.
How can any group issue open physical threat to another human being in a democratic country without being branded as terrorist?
Are they issuing death threats and physical violence against Indian citizens? Yes.
Were they threatened first physically? No.
Is it anyway justifiable? Hell no.
Is that legal in India? I don't think so. Or at least it should not be in a democratic country.
Well, then where is the protest against this very obvious group of terrorists?
Has the movie which is surrounded by so much controversy (Padmavati by Sanjay Leela Bhansali, if you don't know what I am talking about) released yet? Have they seen the movie? Do they know what scenes are in that movie? Then based on what rumour can they make baseless demands and claims as if they are straight descendants of Rani Padmavati?
If one thinks that a historical fact has been distorted in a movie, don't go and see the movie. Simple.
But how can they issue threats? Who are these people?
And please, I won't call a group of cowards Rajput and insult such regal clan.
Rajputs went to battle single handedly and fought with honour.
These people formed a group and issuing threats.
There is absolutely no comparison.
And who the heck gives any group of jerks right to issue open death threats to another human being?
When we talk about places like Saudi Arabia where women just got their rights to drive, we say how poor the country is to not have democratic rights of all citizens. Where the power of force determine law and law is a matter of joke...
Is this the kind of country you want to live in where anyone can threat you for expressing your opinion?
What if this was a Muslim group who had issued the same threat? How long will it take for most of the world to scream terrorism?
Then why not the same outcry when it is a Hindu group?
By the way, I am a Hindu woman who holds no share or rights to the movie Padmavati and no, Bhansali isn't giving me free tickets to the premiere.
But I am a concerned world citizen. The India I left back in 2008 would have been horrified to hear that people now can openly issue death threat to another citizen of the country and still don't get arrested, people in political power can openly speak of victim blaming and victim shaming and don't get fired from their post, people get murdered over rumours of eating beef...
But now no one is horrified by a home-grown terrorism?
Whether Bhansali distorted historical facts or not, that is to be revealed on the day this movie releases.
But whether the humanity and decency are left in the country, are already being exposed to the World.
Which is a damn shame!!!
The whole world hates ISIS today. Why? They are terrorists. They don't believe in democracy. If anyone dares to speak against them, they issue death threats and carries them out. They don't want to listen to any opinion other than what they think is right.
Now let's take a look at so-called Rajput Karni Sena who is issuing violent threats left, right and centre.
Do they believe in democracy? I don't think so.
How can any group issue open physical threat to another human being in a democratic country without being branded as terrorist?
Are they issuing death threats and physical violence against Indian citizens? Yes.
Were they threatened first physically? No.
Is it anyway justifiable? Hell no.
Is that legal in India? I don't think so. Or at least it should not be in a democratic country.
Well, then where is the protest against this very obvious group of terrorists?
Has the movie which is surrounded by so much controversy (Padmavati by Sanjay Leela Bhansali, if you don't know what I am talking about) released yet? Have they seen the movie? Do they know what scenes are in that movie? Then based on what rumour can they make baseless demands and claims as if they are straight descendants of Rani Padmavati?
If one thinks that a historical fact has been distorted in a movie, don't go and see the movie. Simple.
But how can they issue threats? Who are these people?
And please, I won't call a group of cowards Rajput and insult such regal clan.
Rajputs went to battle single handedly and fought with honour.
These people formed a group and issuing threats.
There is absolutely no comparison.
And who the heck gives any group of jerks right to issue open death threats to another human being?
When we talk about places like Saudi Arabia where women just got their rights to drive, we say how poor the country is to not have democratic rights of all citizens. Where the power of force determine law and law is a matter of joke...
Is this the kind of country you want to live in where anyone can threat you for expressing your opinion?
What if this was a Muslim group who had issued the same threat? How long will it take for most of the world to scream terrorism?
Then why not the same outcry when it is a Hindu group?
By the way, I am a Hindu woman who holds no share or rights to the movie Padmavati and no, Bhansali isn't giving me free tickets to the premiere.
But I am a concerned world citizen. The India I left back in 2008 would have been horrified to hear that people now can openly issue death threat to another citizen of the country and still don't get arrested, people in political power can openly speak of victim blaming and victim shaming and don't get fired from their post, people get murdered over rumours of eating beef...
But now no one is horrified by a home-grown terrorism?
Whether Bhansali distorted historical facts or not, that is to be revealed on the day this movie releases.
But whether the humanity and decency are left in the country, are already being exposed to the World.
Which is a damn shame!!!
I agree with you...being democratic country it's really sad to see how one threatening to another one. I wish this matter solve soon.
ReplyDeleteBut I suggest you never ever compare with ISI, that grp is altogether diff level being inhuman in the name of religion. Most muslims they don't consider that grp as Islamic. I am scared of that grp n i don't want even think about them.
Agreed. But the reason I compared that this is how ISIS began. They started with small threats to a certain sects of people and look where they progressed. Everyone starts small. Shiv Sena, Boko Haram, even Nazis, started small. If not checked, then they become a threat to democracy and eventually a threat to humanity.
DeleteLike you, I am also offended how anyone can issue death threats openly? And why are not they arrested?
This is a sad situation that we are in. Why not let the concerned authorities decide the fate of the film. If any group feels that facts are distorted, why not produce trustable source of information.
ReplyDeleteAbout the threats, wonder what the police forces are doing? Why not take action against the people issuing such threats?
I live in India and I am really saddened with such events that potray us in such bad light to the world
Exactly. Anuradha, I understand your concern. I don't live in India but it's my birth place and I am proud of it. But while India is working hard to be a superpower, these kind of incidents hurts it's reputation as a law-abiding peaceful country.
DeleteThis is not a place where law is non-existent but it seems it's blind. We know it's not. But that's not the image which is being portrayed here.
It's not just about one single isolated incident. They have threatened to pay money who will bring the actor and director's head and threatened Javed Akhtar to not step foot in Rajasthan or he will get beaten as if they are king of somewhere. Who the heck are they?
They have not even seen the movie to have actual reason to be offended. Just like that Muslim guy who was lynch mobbed for eating beef without any proof got murdered. Don't we need law anymore? India isn't wild west. Private citizens can't take law in their hands.
And if they are not checked, one day, they will be another Shiv Sena of Mumbai whom thinks they rule the city.
Very unfortunate event.
I'm not a big fan of bhansali movies. I mean the dudes style of film making stinks racism. But all this row over rajputs and all is too much. These guys are the Indian version f Neo nazis
ReplyDeleteExactly. My point wasn't the movie. My point was the war on democracy. India is the largest democracy in the world. But if any group can go and threat Indian citizens without getting arrested, then they start to gain power and everyone knows, power brings popularity and corruption. And eventually if they get enough following, the Govt. can also be controlled by them. If not checked, this group can turn into India's version of home grown terror.
DeleteWell Kamal hassan was right then. Terrorism does exist
DeleteIt certainly does. And terrorism has no religion.
DeleteTrue that, whenever zealots curb basic human rights in the name of fascist ideals, that's when humanity takes a backseat.
DeleteAbsolutely.
DeleteI hope they show a song of full passion between khilji and his slave malik kafur. Now that would make the movie historical. If not let the movie not release. Nobody is gonna lose anything by not seeing a imagined jayasi version of padmavat.
DeleteConsidering the era was 1300, is there any accurate historical accounts of Khilji and his slave Malik being in a relationship? If it's there, sure. It can be shown as historical fact if this was a documentary on Khilji's life. But it's a movie on Rani Padmavati's life.
DeleteHowever, I don't see how anyone but the censor board gets to decide which movie should be released in country or not. Yes, one can certainly decide which movie they want to watch spending their hard earned money. And after the release, if enough people decide to not spend their money or time to watch the movie, that's their choice too. But no one has the right to dictate what others should or should not be able to watch. That's not how democracy works.
Well said Tia.I mean there are lot of movies which show the good and bad of lots of communities.Why so much ruckus when a movie any rajputs is coming up.Are they invincible.just like there is good or bad in everythin.There must have been good or bad in them as well.But India is so obsessed with the fundamentally flawed caste system,that rajputs have to be given special treatment.It s at these times one wonders,have we really progressed
ReplyDeleteThe point is Mily that these days, some idle minded people have nothing better to do except be offended about anything and everything. First of all, wait until there's a reason to be offended about. But nope. They are all over a damn movie just because they assume or heard certain rumours are true. But can't be bothered to wait until they find out if the rumours are true or not.
DeleteI mean whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?
It is a documented historical fact that Alauddin Khilji was a bisexual. It is similarly just a figament of imagination the story of padmavat about rani padmini. Their is no historical record of her existence. The legends say she was second wife of the king and was a princess from sri lanka. The same is not mentioned in any record of that period. What is authentically known is khilji was a fanatic whose destructions has its echoes even to this day even in Southmost madurai. When a hero like ranveer singh is portraying him, it is quite natural that people are outraged. After all india was under forgien rule for 1000 years.
ReplyDeleteNo country in the world would be a perfect democracy when it hurts national sentiments. The freedom of speech and expression is not given to glorify the killers of our forefathers.
I am not at all in favour of banning the movie. Eventhough i have serious reservations of how mr bhansali makes his movies. But still its a source of livelihood for all its artists. So i wont justify its banning but india will not keep quiet.
The same is going to happen if a movie is going to be made about aurangazeb or tipu sultan in future.
Days of sickularism is over.
Most f the Persian and turkish rulers who invaded India were ruthless.They just had one intention plunder and loot India.But I don't think Bhansali is trying to glorify Khilji
DeleteWhat makes you think that Bhansali glorified Khilji? Have you seen the movie?
DeleteHas anyone seen the movie except the makers yet? So isn't it necessary to be offended AFTER there is concrete proof to be offended?
Secondly, if Rani Padmavati is a fictional character, then why all these issues in the first place? Who gets offended over fictional characters?
Thirdly and most importantly, I think you were talking about days of secularism is over. I hope to God that's not the case. Because if secularism is over in India, then India is over because secularism is one of the fundamental pillar of Indian Constitution and law and order clearly stated as one of the primary rights and responsibilities of Indian citizen.
However, if I understand correctly, you are offended that Bhansali might have glorified Khilji and not particularly concerned about how Padmavati is portrayed as she is apparently a fictional character.
Fair enough. Again, have you seen the movie? Shouldn't you save your offended nationalism until there's something to be offended about? Imagine how foolish it will feel if it turns out that Bhansali didn't glorify Khilji at all and shown him as a monster.
That was exactly the point of my post. Imagine how so-called threatening Karni Sena will look if Bhansali has made Padmini look like a Goddess?
Sorry I missed this one. Who do you think would be suitable to portray Khilji? Why can't Ranveer Singh play a villain? Last time I checked, no one fell in love with Shahrukh Khan's character in Darr. He generally plays a hero, who played a villain in that movie. Why would that be offensive to Indian nationalism? In fact, I'd think, to truly bring out the evilness in Khilji, we need an actor of highest calibre. Who could have played Joker better than Heath Ledger? It's easy to play a hero. But to play an iconic villain, you need immense calibre. Because you have to play a role you might hate the most. That's why many actors after playing iconic villains, go for therapy to cleanse their mind.
DeleteDid i say secularism???? I said sickularism. I hope you know the difference.
ReplyDeleteSecularism is when state treats all religions equally. Sickularism is not that.
No actually I don't know the difference since I don't know that word Sickularism. I searched in dictionary and that word is not there either.
DeleteYou will not find that word in dictionary today. But quite soon it will become part of it.
DeleteSickularism is when state treats certain religions specially for vote bank purposes and gives preferential treatment to it compared to others.
Ok. Well then how that affects Bhansali? He is neither state nor he is out to get votes.
DeleteHowever, you do know that right now that word is applicable to Hindus in India, right? Considering BJP is in power?
Just look back and see what has been going on since Modi got elected.
Yes thats true modiji is root of all evils. We should bring back glory days of erstwhile government.
DeleteIf that term applies to hindus now. Its very good as it is applying to hindus after ages or rather centuries.
Bhansali had got the first step wrong by trying to make movie with khilji as no sane person would like to see their forefathers getting slaughtered and mothers committing sucide.
I would still dont want the movie banned. Sweet revenge will be when the movie is released and no body watches and it bombs at box office. That woulf be a much better lesson. But unfortunately that is not going to happen.
First of all, Hindus were not disadvantaged since India's independence. Yes, they were not given extra privileges in centuries (until Modi came into power) or as you called it sickularism. But that's the price you pay for living in a secular country.
ReplyDeleteWhen India got independence, our founding fathers agreed to make India a secular country. Unlike Pakistan, we didn't want a specific religion oriented country.
What Modi did wasn't the issue. The issue is what he didn't do. He didn't oppose a single misogynistic, racist, sexist voice threatening and openly insulting India's Constitution and it's secular values along with its private citizens. If anything, since he came into power, the open aggression of fundamentalist Hindus have increased significantly.
The previous Govt may not have been useful in anything else. But at least the different communities stood by each other. Communal hatred may be was there in some, but it was not so disgustingly and unapologetically in your face.
Secondly, Bhansali made a movie on the legend of Rani Padmini. Khilji happens to be a part of it. By your logic, no one should make movies on freedom fighters like Bhagat Singh, Netaji Subhash Chandra Bose because apparently no one wants to see their forefathers getting slaughtered and mothers committing suicide.
Burying one's head under the sand won't change history. It happened in the past. The least we can do is take lessons from it to not let it repeat itself.
But your last point is correct and the right attitude. And that was exactly my point through this article. If no one watches the movie, that that would be it. People of India are the true power here. They, by spending their money on a movie ticket, dictate what they want to watch and what they won't watch.
But it's people's choice whether they'd like to watch the movie or not. It's not upto anyone else to dictate what Indian citizens should or should not watch. That is the fundamental rule of a democracy. Power to the people, not to a group of threatening bullies.
It true there Tia.I mean I'm not a fan of Congress.But ne Ng someone from a minority community ,I prefer them coz it gives me the security of secularism.All this hatred spewing Hindu fundamentalist idea is disgusting.We can't ignore the fact India is a veritable mix of lot of genes that it is wrong to attribute it to a specific race and religion
ReplyDeleteBut today what we can do is move towards the future forgetting the past and those these sectarian ideals that actually hamper progress.
Heck even Americans have to an extent accepted blacks.we also should be able to forget any differences.
I want to clarify couple of things at the cost of being termed ultra right. Erstwhile governments were not practising secularism but various forms of sickularism in varying degrees and methods.
DeleteIts is due to the continued frustrations of the majority with this form of sickularism that today modiji is enjoying his unquestioned supremacy by winning election after election across india. I am full supporter of secularism in its true sense. i.e uniform civil code for all citizens, other religions major worship places to be managed by govt as it is case for majority temples or both being managed by private individuals. People of hindu religion getting same rights as minorities in states in which they are minority ex north east, kashmir etc. A hindu getting subsidy for kailash yatra as a muslim gets for haj or no subsidy for both. Then we can say india is truly secular and i would actively wish and work for achieving such a dream.
U just validated my point.Modi did not win coz he's good,but because Congress s dat bad.Its the best f the worst situation.He just was the medicine ,PPL just fell for his eloquent speeches.But he is not d best and certainly his PPL breed hatred
DeleteI agree with you Mily. While I grew up as a majority in India, I can certainly understand the uncertainty minority feels when a country's political power openly spews hatred towards a particular community or people.
ReplyDeleteWhich is why in Canada, it's enshrined in constitution to protect minority against "tyranny" of majority. Unfortunately, India doesn't have that law.
As for true secularism, there's no place in religion in the affairs of a secular country.
Modi had been winning election because human nature is to seek privileges, not equality. Right now it's fundamentalist Hindu privileges.
Some people would rather live in an equal society than have extra privileges over others. Those are also the people who won't vote for Modi in the next election considering how he only became Hindu's Prime Minister and failed to be India's Prime Minister.
But since majority of Indian population is Hindu, I won't be surprised if Modi wins again.
P.S. India doesn't "only" subsidize Muslim pilgrimage.
https://thelogicalindian.com/story-feed/opinion/subsidies-provided-by-govt-to-various-religions/
Hindu Pilgrimages get more subsidies than Muslims. But the difference is no one makes an issue out of it.
I like how convinently you replied to only the point of subsidies. Hindu subsides are mostly in the form of grant to vonduct various melas. The government is bound to do it as it collects income from all these temples. Its not the case with other religions. The logical indian has highlighted the same points as i have said above. We need to accept first that the kind of secularism we are following is not correct and rectify it. Else modiji will be hindu hriday samrat after 1000 years and will literarly rule for a long time. Singing glories to a fully corrupt erstwhile government which did nothing but sickularism is not going to make any difference. Its western concept of secularism where state does not interfere in a persons faith. Indian version of secularism enshrined in constitution but never practiced is state treats all religions equally. I am a practising hindu who believes in all religions lead to god rather than a person who says only my religion is path to god and others will be damned.
DeleteI also like how religions attacks have never happened in canada. The attack in quebec never happened as did so many other attacks. Its was all stories written in press i guess. I strongly believe that with all its flaws india is one of the best countries in the world to live in.
Oh there were religious attacks in Canada.
DeleteAnd you know what the Govt. did? Strongly and openly condemned it. Not a single Govt. person spoke in support of the attack.
You know what people did? Regardless of religion stepped forward to fix the vandalism/damage. Muslims and Hindus came forward to help the Church and Christians extended their hands to fix damage to the mosque. No one defended the miscreants.
You know what Canadian did when Stephen Harper openly tried to use Muslims to divide Canadians? He got voted out and Trudeau got voted in.
Canadians truly want a secular society. I am minority in Canada. But I never felt insecure for a second. Because every majority Canadian considers it their responsibility to make sure I feel that way by protesting vocally and openly against any power, Govt and people who try to marginalize minorities.
That is a true secular country.
But if you think any Govt. ever gave more privileges to other religion over Hindus in India since independence, you are kidding yourself.
So called sickularism or as you called it is completely and utterly in Hindu's favour and it's glaringly obvious. No amount of denial is going to change that.
If hindus still dont react this is what you would get.
Deletehttp://postcard.news/really-happened-hadiya-will-shocked-know-girl-trapped-love-jihad/?utm_source=shimla-facebook&utm_campaign=shimla-facebook-utm&utm_medium=cpm
Very true Tia.
DeleteThis is the time for India to progress,but we are still stuck with who's the greatest game.and Vimal sorry to say India is not the best countries to live in.U SHLD check the population,pollution,traffic and petrol prices before saying that.The mean reason India has such a huge nri community is proof of that.Well I don't think India would have reached where it's now,had the power not come to Congress after independence. I hey are not the best ,they are the best we have.
Sorry for me india is the best country in the world. I am a indian who did not go seeking greener pastures and am working for my country and trying to uplift it as best i can with my limited resources despite having not so bad offers abroad.
DeleteTrue that.respect Ur sentiment.
DeleteDid I mention that Stephen Harper was one of the best economists Canada ever had? That's why he was elected year over year. But he made one mistake. He made a racist statement.
ReplyDeleteCanada is a country where a minister gets fired over an $18 Orange juice bought at a five star hotel with tax payer's money. So imagine what is the fate of a racist minister? Fired!!!
No one defended him or praised him. Because a racist and divisive person can't be Canada's Prime nor a racist and divisive party can form Canada's Govt.
That's Canadian Way!!! Once upon a time, against British Raj, it was the Indian Way. That's the India which lives in my heart and always will.
Kindly please read what is indian act and what was gradual civilization act in canada.
DeleteOh I know what they are. But I am trying to understand why that is relevant.
ReplyDeleteI ment india can also solve its problems by following the canadian way by enacting such rules and after 50 years become a racially tolerant society and claim its best in the world.
DeleteOh you mean India can also rectify past mistakes and make sure that their present society is a racially tolerant society in every possible way and only after they have proven it, make claim that it's best in the world? Absolutely. It sure can. But when will that glorious day come?
DeleteWith a population of only 1/30 th of india and landmass much greater than india. It took canada nearly 80 plus years to become a developed and equal country. India is only 70 years old with a population of 1 billion plus. It has performed exceedingly beyond expectation of the world in last 25 years. I dont see any reason to be pessimistic about the growth and equality of the country as i have also visited places in world and seen first hand how india is better than others in freedom and equality.
DeleteIndependent india has also never passed such inhuman acts to bring minorities in to mainstream by forced conversions and integrations. Hence i dont think canadian way is neither suited nor appropriate for india. It is a form of beat them in to submission which india has never done even today. A indian regardless of religion is mostly belonging to same common stock. India was hindu in past then Buddhist and back hindu again. People like khilji and aurangazeb had tried to make it muslim and britishers and portugese have tried to make it Christian. India today remains hindu majority. It is a reality that religions have mostly been propagated by carrot and stick policy rather than by true enlightenment across the world.
DeleteThere are two ways to prove something is better. One, be better than the rest. Two, point out worst example so you look better by comparison. Guess which is the Canadian way and which is the Indian way.
ReplyDeleteHowever, one of your point is true. India never in the past tried to browbeat other religions to forcefully beat them into submission.
Which is why the current situation is so much worse when today Hindu majority Govt. is spreading Hindu supremacy agenda openly with massive popular support.
After 70 years, Canada rectified it's past mistakes and moving forward, united, strong and with true sense of equality. This is a country where Prime Minister openly apologizes for past crimes which he or his party wasn't part of.
After 50 years, India is going backwards under Modi's rule with intolerance, sexist attitude and racist agenda where no one hears a peep from Prime Minister while his party openly spews hatred, threat and sexist comments.
Even 10 years ago when I left India, there was immense communal harmony and some decency left in politicians to not openly spew hatred. But it seems in past one year or so, India has gone back to religious and political unrest of '70s where politicians spews hatred towards others with massive public support.
No one looks at modern, industrialized Germany today and thinks but you guys had Hitler in the past so must be a shitty place to live in present days.
Also, no one looks at current Taliban occupied Afghanistan and thinks oh you guys used to be so liberal and advanced society. Your country must be an amazing place to live in today.
May be when India stops looking in the past and starts taking stock of the current situation and starts fixing today instead of comparing their situation to worst countries, it will actually reach its true potential and be a great place to live in and not just a better option than worst places in the world.
But it's okay as a Hindu person living in Hindu majority country, I don't expect you to understand how it feels when your elected Govt representative calls you names and tells you to leave India for expressing your concern.
On contrary having worked for the govermrnt of india in various postings aboard i know pretty well how the so called societies in the middle east, europe and america treats its minorities which has been personally exprrienced by me also. So india is far better than that in how it treats its minorities. With that i rest my case.
DeleteAnyhoo, the point of this post was to point out certain bullies who thinks they get to rule or dictate democracy and freedom of Indian citizen and lack of response and steps from the Government. I think that point has been made sufficiently.
ReplyDeleteYes thats true. India has lot to learn from canada. I.e how to ensure that all minorities are inhumanly converted to Christianity and civilized for first 70 years. Then when once a homogeneous society is established after 70 years make public apology for past crimes against humanity and create a truly secular society. In mordern times srilanka is following example of canada.But i am a secular product of communist kerala. So even with all my protests against sickularism, i would not want that. Such a secularism as in canada is not as per my sensibilities. India for me is much better example of secularism even with all vote bank politics.Cheers canada. Thanks but no thanks.
ReplyDeleteIndia is never a good example of secularism or racism Vimal I'm from kerala.only Kerala is the state where secularism is truly practised.Is it any surprise we never had a BJP government here.if Ur talking abt Ur experiences in Kerala to whole of India ,it's not fair.Kerala is much liberal than the average India.
DeleteMily i have worked in kerala, tamil nadu, west bengal and karnataka. At all these places secularism of kerala is practised as it is. I dont have any personal hatred for any other communities as i have close friends from muslim, christian, jain, Buddhist and sikh religions who are incidently also following my writings here. I have been clear from begining here that i dont have any problem with true secularism in india which means all communities are treated equally. But as a hindu without any reservation i have experienced personally how a sickular congress with all reservation and stuff like that affects a general hindu without reservations like me. This effect is limited to education sector as seats for general public is limited as far as jobs are concerned as pvt sector enterprises have grown it is not affecting at all. But left to its devices congress will bring reservations there also. I have a huge problem with congress due to these even though my family is core congress supporter. I have also personally voted for that party many times. But not any more. I have also voted for BJP though my family is still congress. If youngo to middle east, china and many other parts of the world etc forget building a temple you cant even openly speak being a minority or conduct your prayers. In india on other hand both minorities are given a free hand even to convert majority and increase numbers. I know what i am saying is not politically correct and my intention is not to offend anyone but it is unfortunate truth. I also dont deny attorcities have happened against minorities at different times as they have happened against majority communities. But india is a young nation which is learning from its experiences. It is also true that personal clashes are reported and exaggerated in media as communal clashes. Even yesterday myself and friends from other communities were discussing on this topic.solutions to indias problem is not to follow western example by bringing absence of religion in public sphere but treat all religions equally. Equally means real equally and not sickularism and reservations, subsidies, vote bank politics and stuff like that.
DeleteSigns of an advanced, evolving, growing society > identify a problem and make a conscious effort to fix it and make sure past crimes are never repeated again.
ReplyDeleteSigns of a stagnant, regressing society > Sticking one's head in the sand, refuse to acknowledge any problem, compare oneself with worst examples to make oneself feel better.
You had to dig back to 1700 to find something to criticize Canada for which by the way already been rectified and today First Nations enjoy their culture openly with complete support of Govt.
Did I mention that in Canada, Catholic Schools funded by Catholic Churches have to take students from another religions without imposing any Catholic beliefs on them since they are funded by Govt. money? That's not a news from 1700. That is current situation.
So yes, mistakes acknowledged and rectified. Canada would rather face the problem than pretend it doesn't exist.
I can just open current affairs news and there are proof of your so-called sickularism galore from current right wing Govt who is openly, unapologetically attacking religious minorities. Not to mention all the sexist comments flow so smoothly from your Govt. representatives for women. Did anyone acknowledge or fix that? Nope. Because you know, head in the sand syndrome.
Canada is suited for people like us who expects equality for all and hold its Govt. accountable if it doesn't do its job of maintaining a secular society or by words or action insult any minority communities. Making sexist comments on women won't even cross their mind because they will get fired instantly.
That's my idea of an equal and secular society.
So sure. Since your idea of Secularism is keep on looking at worse situation and thinking at least you, a Hindu in a Hindu majority country is better off than the rest, I am sure current India is perfectly suited for you. Enjoy!!!
Thank you very much tia for expressing your disgust for india and indian way openly. Indian act and other such acts were made in 1860 and continued for a long time after that. I.e even till 1950. It has brought me to the point where i can attack at your weakest spot and get away with it. But my inate sense of justice and equality does not allow that. So i leave.Canada was not made great by people who left the ship mid way and migrated to other countries and claimed that their current place of domicle is greatest in the world but by people who fought in their motherland for what they believed in against all odds. I respect them and salute their fights for equality and justice. Cheers and happy blogging. Wish you all the very best in life. Bye
ReplyDeleteMay be brush up your reading skills before writing a response. I didn't express disgust to India or REAL Indian way at all. I expressed massive disgust to the bastardized version of CURRENT Govt.'s divisive agenda which is working because SOME people in India want privileges over equality and willing to defend current Govt. even against their own constitution.
ReplyDeleteI absolutely respect India's constitution which gives equal rights to all religion. It is one of the best constitution in the world. But please read your comments where you justified why Hindu majority should now get privileges over other religions.
That, while living in India, is showing massive contempt to your own constitution which clearly states no religion will ever get preference over another. You defended so called Sickularism towards Hindus while showing contempt for the same when it's directed to the minority.
So who is really showing contempt for India?
Canada was formed by people who left their countries and worked hard to make it what it is today. Canada is made by immigrants.
Everyone is working towards the same goal. So we all defend our democratic rights which is equal for everyone and we all guard it so that no one can use propaganda and take it away.
Our Govt. and people defend democracy together. There are people who try to get privileges time to time. But Canadians stand against them every single time. They certainly don't praise nor elect a Prime Minister whose party's agenda is to harass minorities.
India is the largest democracy. And Canada is not. But these days, India is NOT following democratic ideals.
Who is at fault? Whose job is to defend democracy and protect private citizens? The Govt. and the people. But Govt. is busy marginalizing the people and tagging people anti-national if they criticize them as if they are beyond criticism and their blind followers are defending them.
So as I said, since most voices in India now needs Governing party's approval to express their opinion or get death threats, I will continue to blog for the people who is not being allowed to speak in India without getting threats.
Enjoy your life. Good bye.
I don't know I shd interfere in your conversation. I have very limited knowledge about this sickularism. But I would say India is far more better than any country across the globe. I live in Kuwait, I know how biasness about religion n gender. In fact in India the minorities have more previlage than general. Now earning capacity of minority has significantly increased. I think govt should stop all these minority quotas. Now it shd be based on purely merit. Why this differenciation.
ReplyDeleteComing to religion biasness, I want to share my experience. When I was trying get admission for my son at Christ or st.joseph at Bangalore, on my face they said if you are Christian 70% or else 96% cut off. What do you want to say about it. I think in india these religion biasness not just politically but also within small entities. And also in the church they preach against Hinduism. These sickularism will not eliminate unless common people change their mentality.
In western country communal war is easy to control as population is very less. But in India with such diversified population, I think India is doing fair enough.
This is an open blog. So feel free to jump in anytime.
DeleteI agree, Pramila. Religious biases of all forms should be cut off from all part of state and also from education system. But the solution to one religious bias is not another religious bias. The solution to one religious bias is to remove all religious bias. Separation of all religion and state is the only way to make a country secular.
That being said, the current Govt. is very openly biasing one religion over another. That makes them a Govt. for Hindus, not a Govt. for India where a diverse amount of religion live together in harmony. No other Govt. has ever so openly shown biases towards one religion before.
Yes, Kuwait, Soudi Arabia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, even USA since Trump are countries which are heavily biased towards one religion. But no one in India wants India to turn into another version of them, do we?
Instead, India needs to look at its own past when India gained independence. Pakistanis wanted a Muslim state. India wanted a secular state. And that's the reason why India has progressed so much over its neighbours. It's strength comes from its secularism and it's constitution which is one of the best in the world. Everyone in India, regardless of skin colour, race, religion etc identifies themselves as Indian. That identity is not up for questioning or debating based on one's religion or race or looks. Yet, that has also happened since current Govt. rule.
Ever since Modi came into power, every other day some right wing leader or another are threatening people, making racist comments, passing sexist remarks on women and people are not demanding them to get fired. All these news are telecasted I'm foreign media. And where is the prime minister while this is going on in the country? Silent.
He is only vocal against other religious people and other political party people, but never his own. And that is acting as silent support to all the racist, sexist, religious nutjobs he has in his party to be even more vocal and run some sort of strong arm tactics on others.
India might be in a better place than some. But when a country wants to improve and take global stage, they look for better example and work towards that goal since India wants to be among the World's leaders.
But first, one has to acknowledge that a divided country can't progress and a threatened minority will be busy trying to protect themselves and won't work for the country's betterment. It's not so bad yet. That's why I am warning now. What's the point of warning after the situation is out of control and communal hatred and distrust reach its peak like '70 - '80s?
No one wants a repeat of the religious riots, distrust, hatred that were the norm in that period.
Did you felt only current govt biased towards one religion? I don't think so. I hv seen muslims supporting modi govt. It is just our feeling bjp means bajrang dal. But that is not true. I hv not seen any interview of modi about religion. But may be indirectly supporting. I have heard Christians are against modi as modi govt stopped their incoming fund to church. So all church is upset. So they are making noise. But I felt corruption is less compare to previous govt. Black money runs less in the market.
DeleteI will wait n watch this govt. Within few years we will get to know their progress. I am waiting for result of demonetisation n gst policies. It will boost or doobaoing economy.
Till today I hv not voted once. I am not into any party. I always tell my family vote for deserving candidate and not to any party.
When Modi got elected, people from all religion supported him because he promised corruption free economic growth.
DeleteBut the issue is not economy or corruption. The issue is his lack of action against harassment of religious minorities by his own party people. And it's not as if they are very subtle about it. No sirree. They are very vocally harassing them.
It's hard to believe a party leader can't control his own party people but is hired to run a country.
So that means that he, by staying silent, is showing support to his party people to do as they please.
I am sorry but as a Prime Minister to a diverse country like India, he can't look the other way. Because if he does, then that gives open encouragement to people who are already racist to openly harass other religion people.
People were killed by lynching because a mob of racist people believed that they consumed beef. And it was not an isolated incident either.
Whether the blame was true or not, no one bothered to check. The victim and his family were living in the same place for ages without any problem. Why did this happen now? Why didn't this happen before?
Have you heard these kinds of news when Congress was in power? But these days death threats, open threats are as normal as wedding party. Every other month one or more is issued to private citizens while Govt. pretends to not hear.
That's exactly like Trump's USA. Since he got elected, thanks to his support, every single white supremacy group is out in the open bolder than ever. KKK, one of the most hated group in the world, who didn't dare come out in fear of public and Govt, are now openly going on a march to further their agenda.
I am not a fan of any political party. I don't vote either since I am not a resident nor I ask my family whom they vote.
But one thing I do say. It's not enough to just vote someone into power. You also have to make sure they are performing well in every single front.
Would you hire a CEO to run a business and never do his performance appraisal? Just hand over the key to the company and stop asking questions? Then why would you do it to a Prime Minister hired to run a country?
India's Prime Minister is not only responsible for its economy. His biggest responsibility is to his people, their peace of mind, their sense of security and sense of belonging...
Just because Modi is not corrupt and he is working on economy, doesn't excuse his lack of action to its people. May be if people held him accountable for that too, he would have been a better PM then he is today.
Hi Pramila,
DeleteI read ur comment abt Christ college,just to correct you.Christ is a Jesuit institute,so there partiality is towards Catholics and not Christians,which I find disgusting.But then again it's not a government institution.India is better than middle East,but clearly not better than other countries.The brain drain from India is proof of that.The day we as indians find the courage to acknowledge the fact.Indias rise as a super power starts then.Lot of countries which were colonies of British like China and Japan are ahead of us today.I don't know if this is not an indication,then what is.
Pramila,
DeleteI am a Malayaali Christian and mind u Christians in Kerala are not converted ones,we have been Christians for more than 1000 years,so the churches I mean the traditional churches are some of the richest and don't need funding from abroad.The ones which have got stoped are the neo Christians
or the converted ones
So the Christians here don't have dat reason to dislike Modi.But the reason I don't like him is coz of the same things that Tia mentioned
I am against any form of extreme separatist agenda,maybe it's Hitler or a zealot close to home.
Mily, I am sorry if I affended you. But I read some articles from which I have concluded. This is one eg:
Deletehttps://www.quora.com/Why-did-Modi-government-clamp-down-on-NGOs-after-coming-to-power.
I repeat again, I might be wrong as I have very limited knowledge.
But mily, I really condemn the beaf ban and whatever happened in UP. That was inhuman. No one has right to kill anyone. But communal fight going on since we got independence.
And some example what you are saying about China.. .does not make sense. China is not a secular country n whole nation follows buddhism n no other religion practice is allowed. Forget about practising, even you cannot distribute other religion brouchers. If they come to know some one is promoting other region, then they get harsh punishment. But I agree western countries more liberal to all religion. But again I have reservation. Recently I had gone on Europe trip, believe me we Indians are not treated well there. The localite behave as if they are something big even though they are waitress there.
Whatever n however problems in India, for me barath mahaan. We Indians respect others n we can live respectfully.
Mily I am really sorry n really not meant affend you. It is my general idea why so much hatredness for modi govt.
A country is not like a temple and the PM its infallible, omnipotent God.
ReplyDeleteA country is like a corporation whose employer are it's people and all Govt. officials including PM, president, police, army etc. are the employees. They are at its people's service.
Now if a CEO runs a company well, but the executives in his team go around harassing Junior stuff and threatening to throw them out of the company without any consequences, will they think that since he is running the company well, the harassment is acceptable? Will the owners of the company, in this case the people, not be concerned about how the company's image is looking to the rest of the world and also each others' collective well-being?
May be the people not facing harassment might look the other way, but the people being harassed won't think the same.
Just like an employee, Modi should have his performance appraisal on every aspect of his job regularly. Where he is performing well, give him a gold star. Where he isn't, he should be questioned, held accountable to perform better or he will get demoted or even fired. Just like any other job in any other place.
In Canada, a minister who was fine in every other aspects got fired because she ordered a $18 orange juice in a five star hotel. Why? Because people of Canada can't afford to pay $18 for an orange juice. Then why would their employee pay the same?
$18 is less than a Rs. 1000. may be Rs. 800 or something.
After this do you think any Minister would dare to spend tax payer's money in frivolous expenses?
If 1.2 billion people of India demanded the first minister who made a racist or sexist remark to be fired, do you think anyone would dare to repeat the same?
If the same people demand Modi to answer why he is letting people of his party get away with threats, racist and sexist remarks, do you think he'd still dare to stay silent?
But then his party is not targeting majority community so they don't care as long as economy is fine. So some people's mentality is let the minority deal with their issue, and if they are dissatisfied and complain then they are obviously anti-national and anti-India.
Some people in India these days have this attitude as if Modi is India. What attitude is this? He is not India. He is a servent of India, the nation. Criticising him is NOT criticising India. In fact, if his performance is scrutinized and criticised, then that would make a better India because it will force him to perform well and improve constantly.
That's fine Pramila,u did not offend me
DeleteWhat u said is a fact that exist in India.
Also I mentioned China and Japan in terms of development.
I know those countries are rigorous.
It is very easy to criticize BJP government. Let us list such instances under congress government.
ReplyDelete1. Emmergency
2. Sikh Riots
3. Sending IPKF
4. Mandal Report
5. Overturning of Shah Bano Judgement
6. Mumbai bomb blasts and riots
7. Multiple gujarat riots
8. Banning of many movies which showed dynasty in poor light
At those times nobody created any problems. People go for jugular tia when BJP comes in to picture. Common people of india knows this. Hence BJP gets sympathy. Tomorrow if they also become irredeemably corrupt, They will also lose.
I am not saying Congress is a better Govt. But regardless of who is in power and who you elect, it's not enough to just elect and let them do as they please. That's my point.
DeleteIn fact, the real work starts after you elect. You have to make sure that the promises they made, they are keeping them. The elected officials and his party are behaving with utmost respect and decorum to ALL citizens of India and it's constitution.
It's a job like any other.
Would anyone hire someone to entrust the most precious thing in their life and don't bother to check if they are doing a good job or not? Your country is precious. So it deserves the best care. Making sure that it and it's people are getting exactly that are the citizen's responsibility.
Just because Modi is not corrupt, it doesn't mean he can't be slacking off in other areas. And if he is slacking off in other areas, then he has to answer for it.
You, the citizen are his boss. He is not God of you.
But the problem is just because he is not corrupt, no one is bothering to ask him questions on other aspect of his job as in making sure his party is not projecting an untrustworthy, racist image to India's minorities. And if anyone questions people get so defensive as if someone is questioning their religion.
One thing does not cross out the other. No one is good in everything or bad in everything. Same as any normal people in any normal job.
I can't speak of other countries. But I can only speak of USA and Canada. In USA, the president has massive power. Once elected, short of impeachment, one can't stop him (as evident now). But he can only be re-elected once again. So if a bad president is elected once again for the second term, he is not afraid to screw around even more for another four years because then he is not scared of losing the election.
On the other hand, in Canada, the Prime Minister can be re-elected as long as he is running for the office. Which is why Stephen Harper was Canada's Prime Minister for so long. He was also very popular because of all the economic reforms he brought into the country. But that doesn't mean, his job wasn't scrutinized. Just before Trudeau got elected, it came into light that some of his party people were claiming frivolous expenses like attending hockey game which has nothing to do with their job etc. That shed a bad light to the party. People questioned how did he, as party leader, not know of this?
Then it came into light that his chief of staff knew. So that means he should have known too.
With that assumption, people were sceptical about him and his party. The person who can't manage his own party, how will he manage the country?
Then he made a racist comment against religious minorities and that is against Canadian constitution. So that was it. No Canadian will tolerate insult to their constitution. He didn't get elected again.
Then Trudeau got elected. Everytime he takes a step, people question him to explain his reasons and why he did it. And he has to explain because that's his job and we, the people, are his boss. Our tax money pays his salary.
If people of India do the same to any Govt. they elect, they will have to perform better because no one wants to lose their job.
By all means, let BJP run the country. But also ask questions and demand answers. It's your right. Be their boss.
It is sad that tia mam is having such an extreme opinion about Modiji and current govt, which according to me is the best thing that has happened to India in several decades. There is much more to modiji than this " religion thing" which is either created by media or glorified by them.
ReplyDeleteI would like to share one of my personal experiences. We sold our house in Pune for 80lakhs. The financial details are.... 79 through bank transactions and 1 lakh cash. If its previous govt, then the details would have been different. May be 40 bank and 40 cash. We have paid a great amount of tax to our govt which we understood as our duty. Same way all Indians are learning to pay taxes which will build a stronger India. On da contrary congress ( all prev govts) promoted parallal economy which is toxic to any courty. Like this...i can refer several exampleS of the great work initiatives and work of the current govt.
But media is obsessed with and glorifies those stupid comments made by some insignificant people. Because those kind of news gives them trp.
Forgot to mention my name.... I am Swathi ��
DeleteTia.... The whole idea of" India becoming a horrible communal hateful nation in which minorities living under terrible fear".... Is a farce, deception or an illusion. Since u don't live here and perceive india through internet....i understand you. I would like to share real life example.
ReplyDeleteMy hubby is MD of an IT company, whose founder/ CEO is a muslim. He travels around western countries. He says that in western countries( mainly airports) he often feels the heat of islamofobia. He fears for his safety. But when he lands in Mumbai....he feels the safe and secured. Mumbai, CM is an RSS man and isis like Shivsainiks with swords roaming around in streets (according to u) . I have many muslim friends....and nobody is living in fear. What i want to say is reality is different from what media portrays.
Sorry Swathi, I was busy with my house so didn't have chance to respond to you.
ReplyDeleteResponding to your comment now. Modi's economic policies were never in question. He is pretty amazing when it comes to economy, his anti-corruption policy as is proven in Gujarat and now in India.
However that doesn't mean that his silence is not letting ministers from his own party get away with racist and sexist comments.
The ruthless way Modi controlled corruption, he should also do so the same way to control his own people. His ministry is not painting the picture of a secular political power for a secular country like India.
India is and always will be a secular state. That's our constitution and that should not be compromised.
When Govt. posts beef ban and as a result innocent Muslim men gets lynch mobbed and murdered in suspicion of eating beef, that's not normal. Now it's not 100,000 people who died. So may be it's not spread across the country. But even if it's one person, he is still a citizen of India. I haven't heard anyone getting punished for that crime and for that matter no one gives a damn about an ordinary person who happens to be the victim.
Now, stalking and harrassing are illegal. But no one lynch mobs a stalker even if he harasses someone openly and in front of a crowd. Because if they do, they will be charged as criminal regardless of that fact that the Stalker committed the crime in the first place.
Yet people feel no quilm to lynch mob an innocent person on suspicion of consuming beef but think they won't be charged for crime.
How? What gives them that courage? It's religion and the majority political religious leader in power who openly spout hatred which give them this courage.
The same way, ISIS could not have formed in Hindu majority India and Nazi and white supremist could not have been formed in Black majority Africa.
The topic of this article was open death threat to movie director and producer. Last time I checked that was illegal. Yet these days it seems like anyone can issue death threats to anyone and openly on national news.
How can these people get away with it?
Now those news can't be all fake. And if they are then the question comes that if all news are fake about Modi Govt deliberately targeting minorities, then what would media gain from it by making up fake news about their own country which can be easily proven?
I hadn't heard news like this in the past before Modi came into power. But the no. of news of religious violence are alarming since those are not isolated incidents. The big cities might be thriving. But over 70% India live in villages and small town. How are they faring there?
Hi anonymous, sorry don't know your name. Good to know that as a Muslim your experience is great in India. That's how it should be. It's not your privilege, but your right as Indian citizen.
ReplyDeleteNo, I don't believe in Mumbai RSS and Shiv Sena roams the street with swords. I know for a fact that people in Metros like Mumbai, Kolkata (my home town) enjoying prosperity and have better life.
But the Metros contain very small amount of population of the total population. All the news I had been reading didn't come from Metros. They were news from small towns, villages where people are not educated class and are easily duped by people with nefarious intent.
Now those people look at their local representative and Minister for guidance. But when those ministers mimic the view of those in power. So it's the political power's responsibility to maintain a secular tone at all time. And as leader of the ruling political party, it all leads back to Modi's attitude.
When you hear people committing hate crime against Muslims in USA and then Trump stays silent while his Minister from Republican party spouts hatred to Muslims, what impression do you get about Trump? Does it matter if he improved USA stock market, and is pro-business? I am forming the same opinion about Modi because of his silence.
Now a Muslim in New York have the same experience as you in Mumbai. But that's not the experience of a Muslim in Georgia or in South Carolina.
Economic reform doesn't fix PM's silence on the current affairs that are being reported in world media. That's all I wanted to say.
Hi Tia. ..
DeleteHappy to see your response. Sorry my writing confused you. This is again Swathi... I am not a Muslim...what i wrote is my hubby's company's CEO is a muslim. That was his experience.
I require some time to put my thoughts into words. i am not a great writer as you. I admire your command with words though our opinions differ on the above topic.
Love
Swathi
No problem, Swathi. I have no problem if anyone has a different opinion than me. I am happy to hear what others have to say. Thanks for visiting. :)
ReplyDelete